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In this special episode of the “Saturdays at Seven” conversation series, Todd Ream talks with David A. Hoag, President of the Council for Christian Colleges and Universities (CCCU). Hoag opens by discussing the investments Christian colleges and universities make in fostering relationship between faith and learning and how the CCCU is prepared to increase efforts to resource member institutions in relation to that priority. Those efforts include David’s appointment of John Addleman who will work with an advisory board to oversee the preparation of related programs and materials. Hoag then discusses the influences that mentors such as Dennis F. Kinlaw and authors such as Theodore M. Hesburgh, C.S.C. and Ernest L. Boyer had on his calling to education. That calling and the service Hoag sought to offer compelled him to accept appointments at his alma mater, Asbury University, Greenville University, Trinity International University, and eventually as president of Warner University. Hoag then details his appointment as the CCCU’s president, the ways serving as an association president differs from serving as a university president, and his plans for how the CCCU can be of even greater service in years to come to its institutions. Hoag closes by explaining how he understands the qualities and characteristics of the Christian academic vocation and how the health of that vocation is dependent upon the health of the relationships colleges and universities share with the Church.
Todd Ream: Welcome to Saturdays at Seven, Christian Scholar’s Review’s conversation series with thought leaders about the academic vocation and the relationship that vocation shares with the Church. My name is Todd Ream. I have the privilege of serving as the publisher for Christian Scholar’s Review and as the host for Saturdays at Seven. I also have the privilege of serving on the faculty and the administration at Indiana Wesleyan University.
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Our guest is David Hoag, President of the Council for Christian Colleges and Universities. Thank you for joining us.
David Hoag: Honored to be with you today.
Todd Ream: The integration of faith and learning is a practice that is definitive of Christian higher education, and while different Christian traditions or denominations approach this practice in various ways, almost all CCCU campuses contend that the integration of faith and learning is a hallmark of the education they offer As the president of the CCCU, what is your assessment of efforts being made currently across the landscape when it comes to the integration of faith and learning?
David Hoag: Yeah, great question, Todd. You know, as we look at the CCCU, we represent 28 different denominations. So if you hit it right when you said there are gonna be different ways in which we look at faith and learning and how we integrate all that.
You know, I believe for such a time as this, it’s so important for our schools to have a strong biblical worldview with so much that’s happening in our country and in our world right now, we really need to just double down on this area. And because of that this is actually one of our priorities now, how do we work with this next generation to integrate their faith in their discipline?
You know when I go to different conferences or different professional meetings, there’s a lot of gray hair, receding hair lines and no hair. And that burden to me is how do we prepare this next generation of faculty and administrators, you know, they know their discipline, but they don’t necessarily know how to integrate their faith in the work that they do.
And as I talk with my daughter who’s a dean at one of our CCCU schools, I always like to tell her, you need to learn how to use your faith muscle. And some of using that faith muscle is learning how to integrate your faith in your discipline. And there’s great examples of what’s happening at many of our institutions. I think at Baylor and Calvin and Missouri Baptist, Colorado Christian, Wheaton, Charleston Southern, the list just goes on and many of them have different faith symposiums that they actually have in their campus, but I wanna make sure that the CCCU takes a leadership role in this whole area of faith integration.
Todd Ream: Yeah. Thank you. I want to talk to you a little bit more now about that next generation, especially as it applies to faculty members who are entering our ranks currently, and for those who may have better hairlines than I’m currently sporting right now here. But the educational preparation of faculty members serving on CCCU campuses has arguably improved greatly over the course of, say the last 50 years.
On one level, the percentage with terminal degrees in their respective fields has grown, but on another level, the quality of those terminal degrees being earned has also improved. While these faculty members are committed to the missions of their institutions as they serve the next generation, the socialization toward their respective guild is also far greater.
In what ways then do you think those changes afford the CCCU with opportunities to prepare these new classes of educators that are entering our ranks?
David Hoag: You know, as I look at this opportunity, there’s just so many positions that are gonna need to be replaced. You know, the baby boomers are retiring, and so then you’ve got the next group of folks that are gonna need to fill these faculty seats. And so I just think it’s so important that we have great collaboration amongst our schools as we address this area of faith integration for this next generation of academic leaders.
And I think with all the technology improvements, I think of the emergence of AI and what’s coming to be there right now, I think there is gonna be a great desire because this area of discernment and faith integration is gonna be really needed as it kind of goes against the grain a little bit of some of the technology advancements that we’re having. But I’m just excited to see that we’re seeing hunger in this next generation for them to learn more about faith integration outside of their discipline.
Todd Ream: Yeah. Thank you. I want to go back to one of the details you mentioned right as our conversation opened. Because one of the first decisions you made as President of CCCU was to create a program that leads efforts related to faith integration. In particular, you appointed John Addleman, who formally served as Chief of Staff for the CCCU, as the Director of Faith Integration and Program Evaluation.
In what ways do you envision the CCCU then can be of service to member institutions in such a capacity?
David Hoag: So before I entered this role of president, I was actually a board member of the CCCU, and we went through this strategic planning process and time and time again, we kept seeing the importance of faith integration needing to be a big part of what we do. In addition, in my first three months on the job, we did a member survey and, you know, obviously they love the advocacy work that we do. They love the leadership development work we do. They love the communication, but there was even a deep desire for us to take a greater role in faith integration.
And so as I took the helm of the job, one of the things that I wanted to do was how do I staff accordingly to be in sync with our strategic plan? And so I knew that I had to, in a sense, get things started in faith integration. And one of the reasons that I looked at Dr. John was his past experience and also his training. So many people don’t know, but he has an M.Div. from TEDS, you know, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and so he studied theology.
But the other great perspective with John is that he’s been a chief of staff at, at, at one of our schools. He’s also been very involved in faculty development. And so he gets and he knows how to bring groups of people together to go ahead and approach an area that you wanna do some improvement on. And so John has just been a great person to get things started with us.
We’re gonna have two different kinds of advisory committees. The first one deals with this kind of mission self-study. And because we wanna look at the unique, theological perspectives of our missions.
And for instance, one of the things that I’m seeing is schools that are doubling down on their Christian mission are doing very well from an enrollment perspective. So I think there’s gonna be some great work that that committee can work on as they look at that piece.
The other advisory group is gonna take a look at faith integration and, and again, I wanna be able to pick from some of the best minds across our 150 schools in the United States as we get after faith integration in this work, because I just think it’s so important.
Todd Ream: Thank you. You mentioned the importance of collaboration between institutions when it comes to faith integration and probably also in, in relation to another, a myriad of other efforts that are being led. But what are your hopes in the months and years ahead for programmatic efforts focused on fostering these kinds of relationships as schools work with one another, but also work with one another through the CCCU?`
David Hoag: Yeah, I just think collaboration in this area is just gonna be so important as we look at this comprehensively. And what I like to also look at is, some schools are doing it real well. So by having great collaboration, they’re gonna be able to share what’s working on their campus and in a sense, help those that are still trying to figure it out on their campus.
I’m hopeful that right here in Washington, DC we can convene some gatherings of faculty from across the CCCU. I envision doing some things possibly with the Museum of the Bible, because they’re right here, they’re less than a mile away from our offices. And so I’m hopeful that between the great work that’s happening in faith integration at other schools across our network, and then the collaboration of these advisory teams we can come up with some great programs in this area.
Todd Ream: Thank you very much. I wanna transition now to asking you about your own vocational discernment. You earned an undergraduate degree in education from Asbury College now Asbury University, a graduate degree in education from the University of Kentucky, and then a doctorate in education from Saint Louis University.
At what point did you discern that education would prove central to how you were called to exercise your vocation?
David Hoag: It would’ve even been as a time as a student at Asbury. And one of the things I like to say is I had incredible mentors and faculty and coaches that invested in me. She wasn’t my wife at the time, but I started dating her during my collegiate time at Asbury. And we kept seeing how they modeled the love of Jesus and they just shined an incredible light. And we saw the hundreds of lives that they were impacting.
And so during that time at Asbury, as my wife and I were dating, and then later to be engaged we got married just after I graduated, that’s when we really felt this calling that we want to give back. And, you know, it’s kind of interesting, Todd, just on March 7th, I was able to speak in chapel at Asbury and, and also speak to their board of trustees. And literally what I said was, I am doing what I’m doing because of the faculty and staff that invested in me during my time there.
And great pillars of academic leaders and theologians. You probably remember Dennis Kinlaw, a great holiness preacher. I mean, I was Dr. Kinlaw’s driver when I worked in admissions and so it was like this glowing radiance of the Holy Spirit just flowing down the highway.
And so I went right from graduating from Asbury, went to Kentucky for my master’s, but I came right back to Asbury to serve and, and worked there nine years. And then later on, I just continued my career at a few other of our Christian colleges and universities. But it was, it was that undergraduate experience that made the difference for me.
Todd Ream: Thank you. Are there any authors in particular who also shaped your sense of vocation as an educator and/or perhaps to whom you turned for continued resourcing?
David Hoag: Several. Several.
So especially as, as I look at leadership, Robert Birnbaum has a book called How Colleges Work, and I studied that book in graduate school and I can’t tell you how many copies I have given to aspiring academic leaders because one of the things Birnbaum looks at is the different types of schools. You know, you have a collegial, bureaucratic university.
And so I think it’s really important to understand the different types of schools and kind of how they work and how they operate. And I think one has to reflect on their own strengths and abilities because I think that will help drive where you may fit a little better.
And the other piece I like to look at, you know, as you look at fit, I like to look at spiritual fit you know, based on, you know, you are in that Wesleyan family, and so, I probably wouldn’t be a president at a Baptist university because I’ve been in the Wesleyan family that whole time. But you know, on the Wesleyan theology side, Dennis Kinlaw would’ve been a well-read person that I would take a look at.
But then during my time at Saint Louis University, Ted Hesburgh, do you remember Ted Hesburgh? He was the president of Notre Dame for like 35-years. And you know, I attended a Jesuit institution, Saint Louis University, and Ted Hesburgh was one of those great ones. And another one people might not remember back to Ernie Boyer. I don’t know if you know that name, Ernie Boyer. You know, he was a Secretary of Education. He was a Greenville College grad, and, and so I got to study a little bit about him during my journey there at Greenville.
Todd Ream: Yeah. Thank you. I want to ask you now about some of those other institutions where you served and how they shaped your sense of vocation. You mentioned Asbury which we talked about, but also Greenville University, Trinity International, and then Warner Pacific. What experiences from those institutions prove critical in terms of how your vocation and sense of understanding of it evolved?
David Hoag: Well, when I went to Greenville, I was the Vice President for Advancement. And, you know, on my vocational journey, it’s, it’s been kind of interesting, Todd. I’ve kind of been at places that needed to be fixed or they were struggling a little bit financially. And so as I started at Greenville they were a few weeks away from not making payroll, and I had never been at a place that had experienced some challenges like that.
So it helped me kind of develop on the business side, and that got me going on my academic research at Saint Louis University. So I looked at the evaluation process of college presidents, but I also looked at higher ed finance. And so during the 13-years at Greenville, I was able to really learn how the financial side of the institution works and ways that you can get better financially, and then obviously resourcing. And so we were very fortunate to have some record years in giving.
Now, I thought after I was at, at Greenville and I knew everything there was about higher ed because I had this degree in higher education from Saint Louis University, and then I went to Trinity International University, you know, which has TEDS which has a graduate school, which has a law school in California, campuses in South Chicago, Deerfield, and Miami, Florida. Oh my goodness. I learned a ton during that time.
But you know, Trinity has gone through some challenges the last few years and they’ve shut down their undergraduate program. And it was interesting. During my time there, I kind of recommended, I said, I think we should sell and move to Wisconsin. And they said, why in the world would you wanna do that? Well, all of you think about seminary students. You can’t afford to live in Lake Forest, Illinois, Highland Park, Deerfield. And most of your faculty lived in the north suburbs or even into Kenosha and Racine, Wisconsin.
But you know, fast forward, they decided not to do that. Unfortunately they have sold quite a bit of the property and it’s pretty much just the divinity school and, and then the law school in California. I think stay tuned. I think you’re gonna see some things emerging in the next few weeks about some things that are happening at Trinity.
And then I was able to serve at Warner University in Florida. What a great experience to be president of one of the Church of God schools. And I really feel that I was prepared for that journey because of an experience I had at Greenville. I was able to be interim president when the president went on sabbatical, and so that would’ve been probably early two thousands when my wife and I were able to kind of experience what that was like. And so we knew at some point that we might be called to be a president of one, one of our institutions and we had an incredible time at, at Warner, eight incredible years and learned a lot, loved the student experience, loved the faith development part of, of what you do with students there.
And again, a wonderful opportunity to serve at the four different Christian colleges that I’ve served at.
Todd Ream: Thank you. For individuals discerning whether they’re also being called to serve as a president, what advice would you offer?
David Hoag: One of my mentors said, David, do you like rollercoasters? And I’m like, well, that’s an interesting question. I said yeah, kind of, but I really don’t like it when they go upside down. And so when you are looking at the role of the presidency, it is like a roller coaster.
You get on daily and you hear the click, click, click as you’re going up because you don’t know what the day’s gonna bring you and you’re gonna have some incredible mountaintop experiences of God at work or great gift that came through, or a faculty recognition followed by a challenge, something happens with a staff member or a student, or you have a death on campus from you know, a car wreck or something.
And so, it’s an incredible emotion that you feel up and down and what I like to encourage people that are possibly pursuing the presidency is you really need to be called and have the passion because you can’t make up the different experiences that you’re gonna have on a regular basis. But it’s an incredible calling to be kind of the shepherd of your sheep that you have at your institution whether that’s your faculty, your staff or your students. It’s an incredible ministry opportunity.
Todd Ream: Yeah. In what ways did the university presidency change over the course of your tenure at Warner? And for individuals who are discerning a call to the presidency, in what ways could you estimate it might change over the course of at least the early phases of their tenure?
David Hoag: I’ll call it pre-pandemic and post-pandemic. You know, it was always kind of challenging, but I think what the pandemic did was it accentuated some of the financial strain that some of our schools are having. And we’re in a really challenging, I’ll call it advocacy environment. You know, one of the things that we do here at the CCCU is advocacy work. We wanna make sure that our religious liberties are protected, but also like our student funding.
And so we wanna make sure that, you know, our students are still eligible for federal aid loans, Pell grants, and those types of things. And so we’re moving into a very regulated political environment right now. And so the financial challenges even with a healthy institution are really really out there.
And so, for instance, as I meet with boards at several of our schools, one of the things I like to do is to bring up a slide which has how much money they receive from the federal government. And most presidents don’t want to admit that the federal government might be one of their largest donors. And when you look at loans and grants and, and PELL and that list goes on and on.
And so I was just with a couple of our institutions and you know, it’s like a $12 million contribution annually. And so what I like to say to them is, I can’t guarantee how long that funding is gonna be there. So I use that as an example because I do think some of that funding is gonna go away. So the challenges as a president right now, you have some government intervention and you have maybe decreased funding, from on the federal side.
The other challenge is going to be regional, so every state is different as to how they support private education. You know, I came from Florida, and Florida is very generous on what they give students that attend a private school. Looking at the very other corner of the country, if you look at like the state of Washington, If a student, if they’re at a school that’s covenant, and what I mean by covenant, like you’re saying that you’re a believer or you abide by their statement of faith in the state of Washington that school would not be able to receive any assistance or that student wouldn’t be able to get any assistance from that state government. So I just highlight those that the financial challenges for this next generation of leaders is going to be the real deal.
And again, at one of my schools that I was with, I think their enrollment’s like 2,500 and they were talking about how they’re doing. Yeah, we have record enrollment, but our margins are so, so thin. They’re like, if I just had 50 more students, I’d be better off. Well, think about that. They’re at an all time record, but they still need 50 more to be able to be kind of financially solvent.
And so the financial challenges are real because, you know, unfortunately, our families haven’t necessarily prepared for college financially. And, you know, choosing a college or choosing a Christian college, you know, is probably one of the most important decisions that family’s gonna make in their lifetime.
Todd Ream: Thank you. You began your tenure as president of the CCCU on September 1st, 2024. I want to ask you now, in what ways is your present appointment as an association president comparable to your role as a university president? Or in what ways is it different?
David Hoag: You don’t have many college events to go to as in, you know plays or concerts, those types of things. But you know, obviously I get to visit different campuses.
It is totally different Todd. So if you think about this, when you’re leading an individual campus, you know, you had have your statement of faith, what you believe, clear direction from your board as to where you need to go, but you’re leading an association, while I have very clear insight and direction from our board on the direction we need to go I’ve got, as I said, 28 different denominations. And what I try to do as you lead an association is focus on Christ-centered biblical worldview and focus on Jesus, focus on prayer because I’ll have some super conservative institutions or fundamental institutions. And again, that’s okay for them.
And then I’ll have some would be to the other extreme. And so I’m trying to keep everybody in the boat, if you know what I mean, but focused on Jesus. So we’re in the middle of this storm in the boat, but yet we need to keep eyes focused on Jesus and that centrality of a biblical worldview.
Todd Ream: In terms of that boat, then the CCCU has grown to over 170 institutions, members and affiliates and so on, 96,000 faculty and staff and over 525,000 students. How have you sought to understand then, as you were just sort of echoing, in terms of talking about a theological continuum, the theological and cultural fabric that exists and defines so many unique communities?
David Hoag: Wow. Keeping the boat steady is the challenge. And I like using the boat analogy because you know, Todd, Jesus did his best work on the water. Think about it. And so what we need to try to do is, as we are leading, we try to focus on what are the main issues and challenges that our institutions are facing.
So use an example right now. There’s so much going on with executive orders and we’re dealing right now with the House wants to cut the budget—330 billion out of education and the Senate wants to cut 1 billion out of the budget. There are going to be incredible changes taking place in student federal financial aid and loans. And so what we’re trying to do is stay focused on what’s best for our boat and, and how do we keep it from having any leaks or water coming over the sides. That’s a great example of focusing on a priority that people are really in need of.
And at the same time, I would say this faith integration piece that we talked about earlier, that’s what people are really wanting. That’s what our schools are wanting. As we looked at our member survey, you know, they want us to help in this area and, and develop because of our network, this greater importance on faith integration. And so those are a couple of the main things that I can keep everybody happy with on the boat.
Todd Ream: Yeah. In the first six months or so in office that you’ve experienced to date, how many of the campuses in that boat have you had the chance to visit, and what have you learned through those visits on the ground?
David Hoag: I have been privileged to be on over 20 campuses. In addition to the 20 campuses, I’ve met with several boards of trustees at, at their different retreats. And one of the things that is so encouraging to me is the schools that are doubling down on Jesus and their Christian mission, they are just thriving.
And so I say to our schools, the first thing you need to do if you’re struggling is its focus on that Christian mission and execute that because I think you’re gonna find things are gonna get much better. So I’m encouraged to see what’s happening in that space.
I’m encouraged to see what’s happening in the lives of our students. I mean, transformation is taking place. They’re going out and doing incredible things. At the president’s conference we gave out, you know, we gave a young alum award to young alumni and the fifteen different kind of finalists were unbelievable. And so those interactions with, with faculty, staff, and students, I mean, are unbelievable.
I went to visit we have an Oxford program, so imagine this, imagine 35 of the smartest kids from across our network of schools and hearing from them what they’re studying in Oxford, I was just blown away because again, they’re studying something that’s really significant, but yet they’re integrating their faith in that European educational model. I mean, so it’s just really powerful just to see what’s happening there.
Todd Ream: Yeah, I keep waiting for Stan to call me or email me about coming over and teaching summer school, but I haven’t got that one yet, so. No, no, no. He may have good reasons to not have called me yet, but.
David Hoag: I’m going over the end of May, so I can put in a good word for you.
Todd Ream: Okay. There we go. That’s a deal.
In addition to mission, faith learning integration and then advocacy, things that we’ve talked about in terms of what the CCCU does, are there any, before we transition, any other programs or efforts that you might wanna highlight for us?
David Hoag: Sure. I was just able to be at what we call the MAC, the Multi-Academic Conference in Atlanta. And we had 500 leaders and potential leaders from campuses all over the United States. And so it’s different than the Presidents Conference. So this would be vice presidents, deans, directors, aspiring deans or aspiring VPs.
What was great is we had some plenary tracks that kind of were glued to pull things together. And then on top of that, they were able to have tracks within their discipline. You know, so you had advancement, you had campus ministry, evangelism, student life, and the list goes on. But man, I was just so encouraged to see the leaders that we’re developing through programs like that.
Fast forward, you know, this is a good commercial for next January January 29th to February 1st, we’re gonna have our Forum and it’s gonna be our 50th, 50th year. So it’s gonna be biblical jubilee to celebrate Christian higher education. And you know, we’ll probably have 1400 people come to that event. And so that’s gonna be a great gathering and I’m looking forward to that.
Todd Ream: Thank you. Unfortunately, our time is beginning to become short now, but I wanna ask you about the Christian academic vocation, as the sort of the means that then leads people into experiencing the kind of careers they have that we’re talking about here, and the exercise of the integration of faith and learning.
But what qualities and or characteristics define how you understand the Christian academic vocation?
David Hoag: So at the end of the day, I think it has to start with a person’s personal relationship with Jesus.
I just don’t know how a person could get very deep into this faith integration without personally pursuing Jesus on a daily and regular basis. And I think when we’re in sync with Jesus, things happen. And so I just encourage these aspiring faculty, if they really wanna pursue this career of Christian higher education, it starts with your personal relationship with Jesus, number one.
Number two, I would say, get a mentor. Find someone that you look up to. And so, you know, I still have several mentors, Joe Brockington, who was with me at Asbury, Stan Wickham Dave Gyertson, and the list goes on and on. Unfortunately, many of my mentors have been promoted to glory and aren’t with us anymore. But I would encourage folks to get a mentor.
And then the third variable that I would recommend is small group. I know that sounds weird or it sounds like a church. Well, one of the things I did in my own professional development was, I had a group of VPs and I did this later on when I was a president and there were about five of us, and we met for two days every year. And we talked about what’s working and what’s not working. At the same time, how’s your spiritual life going? What are you struggling with? How, how can we pray for you?
And so think about this. So if you develop your personal relationship with Jesus, you seek mentors for wisdom and guidance. And then third, you get in a small group, it’s going to make a big difference as you try to figure out and navigate this academic career.
And I think the last thing that I wanna say, tied to all this, whether you’re pursuing a faculty position or a dean’s position, or a VP or a president, one of the things I had to learn in this vocation, in this calling, when you get into a search, it’s not about a competition, it’s about the Lord’s will.
And there’ve been jobs I haven’t gotten before. And you know, you sit and you wonder, well, why didn’t that happen? Well, you can look back in the rear view mirror and see what, well, God was preparing me for something else. So I think it’s just important that as you pursue this vocation of Christian higher ed, start with your own personal relationship with Jesus.
Todd Ream: Yeah. Thank you. In relation to such an understanding of the Christian academic vocation, what intellectual, moral, and/or theological virtues do you think are important to cultivate and for us to seek to cultivate as we help prepare the next generation of leaders?
David Hoag: Well, so I’m gonna take it from the Wesleyan perspective, if that’s okay, Todd. And I love the Wesleyan Quadrilateral. So think about this as you’re on this journey, Scripture, reason, tradition, and experience, that helps shape your thought, that helps shape your thinking.
And you know, in the midst of the confusion, you know, we’re all embracing how does AI work, how do we utilize that, and so forth. I think you always have to go back to this for me, this, this west Wesleyan Quadrilateral as I try to navigate, what’s ahead?
Todd Ream: As we close, then I want to talk, ask you about, in your estimation, in what ways is the health of the Christian academic vocation then related to the health of the relationship that our colleges and universities share with the Church?
David Hoag: The relationship of the Church right now is important on, on several different fronts. First of all, what we found from research, students that attend CCCU schools, have greater attendance as a parishioner as a graduate. And, and so from that perspective, we help the Church because we help prepare folks for service as a parishioner in a Church.
Now the academic vocation piece in preparation for Church leadership or pastoral ministry, it’s kind of interesting right now. And remember I mentioned we have 28 different denominations. Well, some denominations now don’t really require a degree. Or, or they do their own kind of Leadership 101. And so I’m a little concerned that denominations that go that direction, they’re losing that biblical literacy that I think is so important.
Now, that doesn’t mean that I think you need to know Greek and Hebrew to be a good preacher. Now I will say it really does help you to understand the text and so I’m just a little concerned for some of those denominations that in a sense aren’t requiring a seminary degree, but yet they’re kind of doing their own thing.
And so I think what we have to do, and we have many seminary members, we have to show value to the Church and why having a graduate from one of our seminaries or one of our universities can help them in their theological depth and then also their leadership as they lead a congregation.
Todd Ream: Thank you very much. Our guest has been David A. Hoag, President of the Council for Christian Colleges and Universities. Thank you for taking the time to share your insights and wisdom with us.
David Hoag: Thank you, Todd.
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Todd Ream: Thank you for joining us for Saturdays at Seven, Christian Scholar’s Review’s conversation series with thought leaders about the academic vocation and the relationship that vocation shares with the Church. We invite you to join us again next week for Saturdays at Seven.
