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In the sixteenth episode of the third season of the “Saturdays at Seven” conversation series, Todd Ream talks with Melanie Humphreys, President of The King’s University. Humphreys begins by discussing the practices that allowed her to serve a tenure as president at King’s that is one of the longest in Canada and over twice as long as the average American college or university president. Clarity of calling and a willingness to serve prove to be what she attributes most to a person’s ability to persist in such a role. However, she also stresses the importance of taking time away from the office whether doing so is a daily diversion such as a conversation with a friend or an extended vacation. Humphreys talks about how her own discernment concerning leadership began while she was in college and serving in residence life at Trinity Western University. She received support from a host of mentors, but she also encourages individuals walking comparable paths to embrace opportunities which involve some risk. Such risk was demanded of Humphreys when she served at LCC International University and then when she was called to serve as president of King’s (a campus and a larger community in which she initially knew no one). That risk allowed Humphreys to discern something special existed at King’s and that she could make a valued contribution as the community’s leader. In partnership with a lead donor who wished to remain anonymous, one such contribution is the recently opened 40,000 square foot Center for Excellence in the Sciences. Humphreys concludes by exploring the ways the Christian Reformed Church has served as a valued educational partner with King’s as the university also seeks to meet the educational needs of individuals from other Christian traditions.
Todd Ream: Welcome to Saturdays at Seven, Christian Scholar’s Review’s conversation series with thought leaders about the academic vocation and the relationship that vocation shares with the Church. My name is Todd Ream. I have the privilege of serving as the publisher for Christian Scholar’s Review and as the host for Saturdays at Seven. I also have the privilege of serving on the faculty and the administration at Indiana Wesleyan University.
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Our guest is Melanie Humphreys, President of The King’s University. Thank you for joining us.
Melanie Humphreys: Oh, you’re welcome.
Todd Ream: Fortunately for our Canadian colleagues, the average tenure of a college president in Canada is eight years in comparison to 5.9 in the United States. You, however, are now in your 13th year of serving as president of The King’s University. In what ways, if any, do you believe one’s clarity of calling to serve as a president relates to the length of time one serves?
Melanie Humphreys: Thank you for that question. It is a bit unusual to be at 13 years, I think sometimes I’m like, wow. But, um and it’s the longest I’ve served anywhere. The, the other time, the longest other place was in Lithuania for, for 10 years at, at, at a vice president level. I do believe one’s calling does help, but there are likely other factors too as well. But I do think calling does help.
Uh, one of the other factors that came to mind as I was, I was thinking about this question. I started as a fairly young president. Um, and this actually is a job that takes a fair amount of energy. So yeah, I have a few years before I have to retire yet, so that’s good. That’s good.
But I think in terms of calling I am bought in heart and soul to King’s mission, and so that provides a ballast, so to speak when facing some of the storms that come at the president and to be fairly regular. I love, I love what I do, and I am very privileged to be in this role. I thoroughly enjoy working alongside faculty, staff and also with our students. And so that is something that actually I think has helped me remain in the role.
I am an anomaly on the Canadian scene as well. However, I think I am the longest standing president in Universities Canada, which is all of the public universities across from University of Toronto all the way down to Kings, probably smaller as well. Um, and I’m also one of the longest standing presidents. There’s one other president that I’m like neck and neck with in Alberta of all the universities, colleges, and polytechnics in Alberta. So that, that, that’s pretty, pretty significant.
We do talk about, and we have talked about within president circles about how Uh, the tenure of the president seems to be getting shorter and shorter. Um, and change is very hard to enact within a university. It’s just really hard and it doesn’t happen over a short period of time and that makes it really quite a challenge culturally for a university to, to make good on their goals and to, to to advance in ways that are helpful. So that’s just a comment about, about, you know, the length. But yeah, I do think vocation, once clarity of calling, does help you remain in place.
Todd Ream: You mentioned other factors, too, play a role in that. In what ways do you think that the presidency has been impacted by political, social, and or theological contexts, in which one finds him or herself serving?
Melanie Humphreys: You know, I have many examples actually, when a president’s role ends precipitously, and due to external pressures, whether those are government or Church or donors or, you know, it could be even, it could even be family pressures. But for my own context institutions in Alberta, we talk about it having some of the least institutional autonomy in Canada in this regard. So we do have a very intrusive, shall we say, government on, on just everything from policy to, to, to how institutions are funded or you know, all, all of, all of the things you might, you might imagine. And then also churches have also another set of expectations. And so there are some things there that can rock a presidency fairly substantially.
Todd Ream: Now, despite the fact that your tenure is one of the longest then in Canada amongst the groups that you were mentioning, the Canadian presidency is still 2.1 years longer than the American presidency. What, if anything, do you think accounts for the difference, especially such a statistically significant difference between the American university presidency and the Canadian university presidency on average?
Melanie Humphreys: Oh, you know, that’s a very hard question. Um, they are very different contexts. I’ve served in both places, as you know. Uh, you know, and it’s too small a sample size. But one thing that, that came to mind, comes to mind is that, I attended a president’s renewal program through the Council of Independent Colleges and Universities, and it was designed for seasoned presidents. Uh, so it was cohort based. Uh, it was facilitated by spectacularly by two former presidents Dr. Michael Leroy, and also Dr. Celeste Shank.
And what struck me was that a dozen presidents in the room, and I, I was the only Canadian, but I don’t know if that was the only thing that was different, but I was the only one that had taken more than one week away from their campuses for recharging and vacation and whatnot. And I think that alone is a recipe for burnout and disaster, quite frankly.
One of my colleagues here in the Canadian system Dr. Sophie D’Amours, who I admire greatly, she’s the rector president at Laval University in Quebec, challenged me, said, Melanie, take your vacation. Take your vacation. You need to. Like, there’s always something that’s urgent, always. So it seems to me to be a failure of governance. I have a very good board who supports me taking time away. And I have a very good executive team who also appreciates that I support their being away to recharge. We can’t do the work we do in a complete deficit.
Todd Ream: You mentioned the importance of vacations and taking time away, especially when everything that could be on a president’s plate could be deemed urgent. Uh, other practices that you’ve invested in over the course of your career at Kings that you think contributes to longevity or that you perhaps have seen with other presidents that have contributed to their longevity?
Melanie Humphreys: Well, I have a mantra and everybody knows this mantra, but it’s “Divert daily, withdraw weekly, abandon annually.” Um, and so divert daily could be something as simple as having a coffee with somebody good conversation. Um, it could be something as simple as my daily walk in the morning. Withdraw weekly for me is Sabbath. So you are not designed to work seven days a week. And as much as it’s hard to get your head out of that, it’s very hard. You, you need to step back at some point in your week, even if it’s just for a concerted bit of time.
And then abandon annually. I do that one pretty well actually. I like to travel and I have friends all over the world. Uh, so, I think that has helped me. Um, I also feel like I’ve been provided for, for remarkably in my role at Kings. I have a very good balance between work, community, friends outside of Kings. Uh, many presidents I know, you know, you moved to a town and I was, I did, I moved to Edmonton. I knew nobody here other than my interview community and my real estate agent who was a Christian said, hey, I know a group just across that laneway meet, and they’re a small group and I think you would really enjoy them. And that has just really become my group of friends outside of Kings. I study with, like, I do book studies or Bible studies with them. I hike, I kayak, I, you know, we, we do life together.
Um, so I feel like I have a really good, good balance. The work of the president can be all consuming. And for presidents often don’t have much of a life outside of their role. And my friends, you know, me a lot about it. And they’re, they’re actually really helpful to keep me humble and they keep me grounded. Um, and my little neighborhood I live in a cul-de-sac and you know, I mean, like, you, you see each other and people ask about your life and it, it, it is a good balance.
Todd Ream: Thank you. Thank you very much. I want to transition back to the origins of your vocation then now, and you earned an undergraduate and a master’s degree from Trinity Western University and then a PhD in higher education from Azusa Pacific University. At what point in time did you discern higher education would play a critical role in how you understood and exercised your vocation?
Melanie Humphreys: You know that I became aware really early. I don’t know if it was like, so I took my time in my undergraduate in which I actually have great conversations with students about that. I’m like, what’s your rush? Really? Like, you’re gonna work the rest of your life. What’s your rush? But anyway, I had I had this opportunity to be a resident assistant in my undergrad, and that resident assistant position actually opened my eyes to this whole other side of the university that was going on unremarked really by everybody, of my peers other than when they got in trouble with somebody or something, I don’t know.
Uh, so it was from there I thought, no, I think I’d like to, I think I’d like to be a resident director. Um, and I went away and did some other things before I back and was a resident director. And then some of the mentoring that happened within, in that role and some of the quiet coming alongside, like I remember one, one of the staff members, student life staff members, his name was Alan Kotenan. He just quietly recognized servant leadership. Like he was just like, hey, I see you.
And I started seeing a world past my role, and I had been involved in leadership, whether that was in youth or college and careers or, you know, a variety of things. And I have always been interested in the bigger picture. And how has that work and how does that system work and what does this work and how does the, how do these people get resourced and plugged in and those kind of things. And so I knew actually from, from that point, I wanted, I wanted to learn more and invest more in higher education. And so that was really the start for me.
Todd Ream: Thank you. Are there any authors also that contributed to your sense of understanding of vocation?
Melanie Humphreys: Back then, maybe not. Like, I’m trying to think about like, you know, what was I reading? And, and some of it, some of it was, but definitely during my, my PhD there, there were definitely and, people like Parker Palmer and people like I actually was, was mentored by Chip Anderson who was, was really started the Strengths Finder approach within higher education.
So I, you know, what I loved about that was not looking at people in terms of deficit, but looking at them at, wow, you have been designed with all of these wonderful qualities. Like how do we hone and, and, and get at those things? How do we help you become all that you are meant to be? What are your dreams for the future? And so those are some of the, some of the people that, that definitely shaped my understanding.
Dr. Laurie Schreiner too at Azusa Pacific. Definitely asking some of those questions about how do faculty come alongside students to help them understand who they’ve been created to be?
Todd Ream: Prior to your appointment at Kings, you spent the majority of your career serving in, as you mentioned, Lithuania and also in the United States. In what ways, if any, did those experiences abroad contribute to your sense of vocation as an educator?
Melanie Humphreys: I actually just returned from a visit from Lithuania, so that’s, that’s kind of fun. Uh, and it was fun to see what had changed and what remained the same. I really don’t think I would be a president today if I hadn’t stepped off into the unknown. Uh, and, and what I mean by that is, when I was serving as a resident director, there really wasn’t very much movement in the upper ranks. You know, people were pretty settled into their roles and I, I didn’t really see much opportunity for advancement. And so stepping off did a number of different things. I think courage is a muscle. And so it has to be exercised. Um, and we have to be honest that we don’t always have all the answers. Uh, so when you step out into something so completely unknown, I think it exercises that in a good way.
In terms of vocational development, I learned that I don’t have all the answers, which is really, really good. Um, I learned that especially for that age and that stage of, of, of, of career development, I learned that there’s vibrant and healthy faith outside of what was then my evangelical upbringing. So I learned to see other people differently and see their stories and understand and hear differently. And hear different people’s contributions differently. I learned about different ways of, of and different approaches to solving problems.
You know, I mean, if you’re in Lithuania, frankly, what could I do as a North American? Uh, like how, how am I going to affect change here? And yes, it was an English speaking school. But I was working with people you know, who knew four and five different languages. When I learned enough Lithuanian and would answer to some of my Lithuanian staff, I had a number of different cultures, they would just switch to Russian just to tick me off. Like, I mean, it was just, it was, it was great. It was fabulous and we had a great relationship. It was super fun. But you, you learn a kind of humility in how you work and how you walk in your vocation. Uh, and so, at the same time you learn, “I have something to contribute here. And I would like to exercise that in a different way.”
Um, and, and then moving, moving on to the United States, I like, I, I spent 10 years in Lithuania in which I earned my master’s and my doctorate, formational, like really formational time, but I knew after about 10 of my, my time, my calling was about up. And I didn’t know how to move from there. I had invested myself so thoroughly, so I, I actually asked a couple of colleagues, you know, what, what do you think? And they both nominated me for the role that I ended up taking at Wheaton. And it was a wonderful place to land after being in a completely different culture after 10 years. And, it wonderfully rich community, vibrant culturally. And I got to learn a lot of, I learned a lot of things there too as well.
Uh, but it was another step in that vocational discernment. Um, okay, yes, I have like, it was a different role and it was a way of learning, okay, how am I gonna shift things in this new culture? What’s the language that’s spoken here? Um, because each institution has its own language.
Todd Ream: Thank you. For individuals then who are considering whether to serve with a university beyond the country in which they are a citizen, as someone with such a rich experience abroad, what advice would you offer?
Melanie Humphreys: I think, I think first is step out into the unknown. Uh, you’re not gonna have all the answers up ahead. I mean, you can do as much research as you can. But I do think that it is highly, highly valuable to get some of that experience of being other. And it helps you, helps you relate to students too who are also coming to your campus who are other? I think that we can assume that there is, there is only one way of doing things. Um, and, and so getting out of that space.
There’s also quite a few people doing this around the world. There’s lots of opportunities. And so you start looking around and getting to know people in those circles and you’re like um, this is a path and this is a path. The only, the only thing I would say with that is sometimes with travel, path leads to path. You never come full circle. You’ve changed, other people have changed, and so you have to be okay with that. You, you don’t return and nothing has changed in your life. You come back changed and so that’s good, but recognizing that.
Todd Ream: Thank you. The discernment process speaking of stepping into the other, the discernment process that led you to become a university president and accept the appointment as president of King’s University. Would you describe that for us please?
Melanie Humphreys: Well as I said, I was very happy at Wheaton. Um, I had the sense that I was contributing a lot. It was super engaging. I loved my community. I loved the working with the faculty and students there. At the time there was when first came to Wheaton, there was a barrier to females in executive leadership positions. But that’s not, that’s changed under the current president. And at first, I was entirely resistant to King’s call. It is quite something to change communities and continents. It is a big shift. And so I had settled in, and so I wasn’t as open. I’m like, oh, thank you for your call.
Um, but um, but they were really persistent and so I made a visit. And I came in incognito. I visited during an interdisciplinary studies conference and totally snowed the current president as to why I was there. I said I was there because a general, education review for Wheaton, which I was on that committee, but it had nothing to do with that. But anyway, and I just started wandering around and asking students about faculty and faculty about students. And at the end of the day, I determined, oh shoot, this place is for real. Ah, I need to put my hat in the ring.
It was just, it was that kind of compelling oh, I see what this community is about and I see that kind of community they are trying to be with students and the kind of care that’s here and the, and the level of education and, oh, yeah, okay.
So that was the, you know, the opening of the door and then many, many different conversations passed that until I was the last person standing.
Todd Ream: For comparable question then the one I just asked a few back, for individuals who are discerning whether the calling to the university presidency is part of their future, what advice would you offer them?
Melanie Humphreys: Oh yeah, good question, because I see a lot of people who enter the presidency maybe thinking it’s something that it’s not. At its heart, you have to see, you have to see it as service. And, and I don’t think people would think, you know, name right up front. They’re, they’re doing just, just, just to climb the ladder. But it is something that takes everything that you can possibly throw at it. And the ballast again, has to be your vocation. It has to be your understanding of who God is, who you are, your identity, your personal identity as a child of Christ. And then to, to be wanting to serve a greater cause like in terms of Christian higher education.
Christian higher education is not an easy road. Not that any presidency is like my, my public colleagues have a different road and sometimes I, I’m so glad to be in Christian higher education, but at the same time, they’re just different and they have different struggles. Um, so I think it’s an honest, an honest self-evaluation as to why you want this role and where you place your trust and who, what your identity is, because all of that will be challenged.
Todd Ream: Thank you. You mentioned that before you decided to put your hat in the ring, you went incognito and visited the campus and had conversations with students and faculty that likely put you on this path to then assessing the potential that King’s had and where you could serve as a leader. When you began your tenure as president and then made a more public assessment and public presence, how did you go about doing that? What did you look for? What did you see and on, what did you see in terms of this is where we’re going to begin and upon what we’re going to build?
Melanie Humphreys: Well, I did spend a lot of time listening to the board, to faculty, to students, to the donor community. And truly you don’t know what you don’t know. So there have definitely been surprises along the way good and challenging. And I would say at the, at the beginning, the other things that I ran into. First, I was a young president, so I was following two presidents who, who three presidents who retired, all in good standing, just, just had aged, you know, to the point where they were time to, time to check out.
And the other thing is I was King’s first female president which was, which was really interesting. And I had some very interesting comments from the community. Some, some, some of the women in the community definitely were like, we’ve been praying for this day. Uh, and then some were like, oh, that’s an interesting, and, and actually a really funny story, one of my relatives who lives on Vancouver Island attends a Christian Reformed Church. And, and one of the congregants said, Kings has a new president, and she’s a woman. And my, and my aunt, to which my aunt said, and that’s my niece.
So, you know, there were some definite challenges at the beginning in terms of like, is she taking us in the right direction? Definitely faculty who, who were like, okay, yeah. And learning how to articulate this in a Christian Reformed setting. So if you remember, I had curiously, I mean, I grew up in an evangelical Baptist home, spent time in Mennonite communities, spent time in Roman Catholic and Russian Orthodox community with students, and then in Anglican communities.
I had never spent time in a Reformed community. And I suppose Wheaton is has some of those roots, but it has less of a Reformed accent than Kings did when I first joined it particularly. Uh, each of the communities that I’ve lived in, I’ve needed to learn the language, even if it was English. I had to learn the accent of those communities.
So Kings was founded by a Christian Reformed community and comes from a very strong community of integration of faith and learning. And, and, so at the same time, Kings was founded to be profoundly ecumenical. So it’s, it’s trying to figure out how, how to hear all those voices and to make that, and to, to be able to draw them all into a, into what, okay, what’s next? How do we determine where we go from here?
And a lot of that was wise council and bringing the right people around and, and listening and, and also, you know, not stepping back when someone said, what are you doing? And saying, okay, what are you talking about? I don’t understand. Uh, and then, you know, okay, so did I mishear you or are you mishearing me? So a lot of navigating perceptions and conversations.
Todd Ream: What did you then look toward in terms of accelerating that historic commitment that Kings had to the integration of faith and learning? And in particular, perhaps what role do efforts say such as the Center for Excellence and Science play in that effort?
Melanie Humphreys: I want to comment, first of all on the faith component. Um, so one of the, you know, really important things that is talked about a lot within Christian higher education is, how do we maintain our faith? How do we not mission slide? And within my own community, an institution that’s very close to King’s, a few years ago wrote all its faith references out of its, its materials and act and has become a secular institution. And so do you, how do you, you not go down that road?
Um, and I think one of the pieces, one of the significant things for me, and some of this is from my reading, some of some of the good work by, you know, I mean an old book by Robert Benne, in particular, that talks about, you know, some of the, the markers of Christian higher education. And for me, the big, big thing that I have seen is as soon as you start to compromise who is on your board for political or other reasons, as soon as you start to compromise who you hire, faculty and staff have to be committed to the Christian mission of an institution or you start a slide into, into an institution that doesn’t understand why and who you are.
And so I have spent and have been very strong in ensuring that everyone we hire, faculty and staff, understand who we are and what our mission is. So I still am engaged in interviewing all faculty. I don’t interview all staff, but it is, it is something that I signed. I signed paperwork remarkably, as a president. And so it is one of, you know, the things that I insist in seeing what is the faith commitment of this person and how do we know they’re going to be a good cultural fit with Kings.
Um, so that, that is, that is really important in maintaining mission alignment and, and not not experiencing drift. And I don’t know if that’s easier in a denominational school, but in an ecumenical school you have to listen differently because we have, we have faculty I like to say from Ukrainian Catholic, right through United. Like, I mean, so how do you all understand an articulation of faith?
I think that with regards to, I could talk about this at length actually but I think with regards to the Center for Excellence in, in Science, Kings as an institution started off from its early days, having its, some of its first faculty were scientists. And so which, which is a unique place. We didn’t start as a Bible school. We started with theology, but the faculty definitely were a diverse group.
And so it came Center for Excellence Science came directly out of strategic planning process in which we, we thought about what are the strengths that we have to offer and how can we build on that as a university, and what are our students requesting in terms of degrees and interests, and then what are the market trends. And so Kings has had a very strong reputation and history in preparing students to go on to be doctors and nurses and dentists and the whole range as well as, you know, teachers and, and a range of business people but the sciences are super, have been super strong.
And then, you know, along with that came a beautiful conversation with a family who wanted to raise the profile of Christian higher education. And I spent a copious amount of time talking about how we are aligned with the Christian mission and how that is, that is something that, that we’re faithful to and it’s, it’s something that we, we prize. And so it’s only myself and one other person who know who the significant donors are to the Center for Excellence in Science. The family believe that the left hand should not know what the right hand is doing, and, and so it is an anonymous gift that has moved us significantly towards this, this wonderful new thing.
Todd Ream: Yeah, thank you. You presently serve as chair of the Alberta Post-Secondary Network, which is just one of a variety of comparable roles you’ve served in the broader community during your time as president of Kings. In what ways do you believe serving in these kinds of roles is not only beneficial to your expression of the academic vocation, but also benefits Kings?
Melanie Humphreys: Well, Kings definitely sees itself as contributing to the public good, and, and also preparing students for the public good. So it’s, it’s, it’s part of my role too as well. You know, my involvement is, has been key in reducing prejudice and, and as well as, just not knowing. And so a couple stories. So, Universities Canada early on in my time at Kings, I was called to a mini tribunal and it was a mini tribunal, and the question was whether faith-based institutions could remain a part of that association.
And it was related to discrimination against LGBT people at the time. I realized coming into that organization that the faith-based institutions, and there’s just a few of us, there’s five, were basically huddling at meetings. They weren’t, it was comfort. It was comfortable to hang out together and not to hang out with people that disagreed with you. And so I changed strategy. I got to know colleagues. I sat with people who disagreed or didn’t, didn’t think they liked, didn’t think they liked this faith-based institutions. They didn’t, didn’t know us.
So I got to work, I got on committees and eventually was the chair of the Education Committee of Universities Canada, and in that role, I was able to be a public witness for my faith, hardly able to hide it and was able to influence who is at the table. So bring on another Christian university into the association, eventually was able to steer some conversations around reconciliation and about flourishing for Indigenous and Black communities. So really cool, flourishing things that are at the heart and mission of Kings which is really, really cool.
Within my own province, the Alberta Postsecondary Network, it’s an honor to have been elected unanimously by my public colleagues to chair this association. And so it places Kings at tables. I get to be a part of conversations about how we serve our province. I get to be, I get to be a part of policy and funding conversations. Uh, I get access to all kinds of initiatives which benefit Kings. It raises King’s profile and helps people see the Christian public witness in this space.
And as a small institution, we just wouldn’t have the same access. We just wouldn’t have the same access. So it protects, it protects the institution because my peers like me. And so, you know, the big, big research university down, down the, down the road is not about to try to bury us.
Uh, so another, another example there. We were having trouble getting our Bachelor of Kinesiology passed by the Ministry of Advanced Education and, and, and into accreditation. And I understood that a department within a university, a big research university, was blocking us. And so I talked to the, I talked to the president, and I said, hey, in what universe will Kings ever eat your lunch? And he was like, rah, so, so he went away, came back with a letter from the dean and my response was simple. I just said, your registrar can correct all the inaccuracies in this letter.
That week, bachelor of kinesiology moved from the ministry to the accreditation process. So you, you, you have to be part of the system and you like separation in that way doesn’t help the institution. I need to, I need to do the work as a good peer.
Todd Ream: As our time gets short and before we close our conversation, I want to turn to your understanding of the academic vocation for you personally, but then also how it’s exercised and cultivated there at Kings amongst curricular and co-curricular educators. But can you begin by defining what sort of characteristics and/or qualities you see as essential in terms of the academic vocation as we understand it?
Melanie Humphreys: Okay. Not a small question. Uh, I think whatever questions, whatever. Um, but I do believe the characteristics of academic vocation at a Christian university need to reflect the unique integration of learning, service, and community. And I think that is, a shared conviction that all truth is God’s truth, and that education is both a sacred calling and also a public responsibility. And so unpacking how that relates to Kings, I think integration and faith and learning there’s a deep, deep academic humility at Kings faculty hold theological convictions with depth and with integrity, while remaining open to dialogue and difference and, and honest questioning on the part of both peers as well as students.
I think there’s also definitely a commitment to truth and rigor. Um, so commitment to the highest standards of teaching, research, and scholarship, rooted in integrity and curiosity. Kings is most definitely oriented to justice and reconciliation. I have many stories I could tell you but I will refrain. But, but really serving the Church and society and all of creation, particularly marginalized.
Kings is definitely dedicated to the formation of students, helping them understand their own vocation and meaning. What does meaning mean and how do I understand that? We have students, we’re open enrollment. So we have Christian students, we have students who don’t, who come not knowing what they believe or if they believe. Um, so how do you build relationships of trust and care and accountability there?
We’re absolutely dedicated to participating in Christian community. So, practicing humility and charity and mutual respect in those communities. And then also is fundamentally about hope, recognizing that yes, we live in a broken world, but working towards healing and hospitality to difference and diverse voices and perspectives, and offering a really, a gracious witness to the world.
Todd Ream: Thank you. You just mentioned that Kings is fundamentally committed to the virtue of hope when seeking to understand exercise, such an understanding of the academic vocation. Are there also vices that you believe might be most important to confront?
Melanie Humphreys: I think we can get caught in exceptionalism. I, well, I’ve seen that and over, like we’re the only ones that do this, or we are the only ones that do this well. So how do we learn from others? How do we learn from, you know, and, and maybe challenge some of the things that we do? I think some of the things that keep us from partnering with others, well, other Christian universities, I mean, we have, you know, we have so much in common is this sense that no, they won’t do it the way we do it, or, or we’re better somehow. Well, come on. I think, I think sometimes there’s some in exceptionalism that, that, that can happen. That’s one vice I would identify.
Todd Ream: Thank you. For our last question then today, in what ways do you believe the health of the academic vocation on a Church-related university campus is reflective of the health of the relationship that the university shares with the Church?
Melanie Humphreys: You know, this is a really interesting question. Um, and I think some of, some of the health relies on how you understand the vocations of both these institutions, the Church and the universities. Um, there’s a Reformed concept that’s actually really quite helpful that’s helped me as I’ve learned more of the Reformed world, in this and that is that of sphere sovereignty. And so it’s this idea that our purposes are not the same. They align but they’re not the same.
And um, I can’t enter a church and tell them you need to do it this way, this is your theology. You know, just as similarly universities know pedagogy and how best to help students learn in that context. And so how do we do that in a mutually helpful way? Because we both want the service of the Kingdom, and to, to advance an understanding of the Kingdom.
So I’ll give you, I’ll, I’ll maybe give a couple of examples, university to the Church. So I sat next to this lovely individual at an event who I had just met. And this was a few years ago, and he said, Melanie, 2015, what are you going to do about it? And I looked at him kind of blankly and I said, Canada’s birthday, I don’t know what you’re referring to. He was like, oh my word. It is the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation. He was from the Catholic Archdiocese. So, and I was like, oh, meant more to you than me.
So I said, here’s what I could do. Kings is a gathering space. And so I pulled together a broad range of different denominations to talk about how we want to commemorate, not celebrate, but commemorate the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation. And what came out of that was our interdisciplinary conference that year was put on by Kings, the Catholic community, and the Lutheran community, and the Mennonite community. And we talked about why the Church matters.
And it was a beautiful conversation and it was a gathering of all these different traditions and ways of doing and thinking of things. That’s something we could offer. We could offer this, this way of gathering. And then conversely, I don’t want Kings to be a church. It isn’t a church. So yes, we have, we provide chapel, we have Bible studies, we have worship, we have all these opportunities for discipleship, but my students need to find a church home, and so I partner with the churches in my area so that they find those homes. We, we provide opportunities for churches to come on campus to, you know, get exposure, to, to help, to, to, to speak in chapel, to lead a worship thing, to, to, you know, provide, you know, provide some of that connection so that they find their way into a church home.
Todd Ream: Thank you very much. Our guest has been Melanie Humphreys, President of The Kings University. Thank you for taking the time to share your insights and wisdom with us.
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Thank you for joining us for Saturdays at seven Christian Scholars reviews conversation series with thought leaders about the academic vocation and the relationship that vocation shares with the Church. We invite you to join us again next week for Saturdays at Seven.
