Click here to listen to the episode on Spotify
In the tenth episode of the third season of the “Saturdays at Seven” conversation series, Todd Ream talks with Rusty Towell, Professor of Physics and Director of NEXT Lab at Abilene Christian University. Towell opens by discussing the challenges nuclear energy experienced over the course of the last 80 years. Some of those challenges are scientific but many of those challenges are political as nuclear accelerators have experienced a trend toward decommissioning for approximately 50 years. With the idea for a molten salt reactor, Towell and his colleagues at Abilene Christian University hope to reverse that trend with the larger goal of providing clean, safe, and abundant energy. Towell then shares the details of his own introduction to nuclear energy, his experiences as a graduate student, and the lessons he learned as a faculty member who invested the first 20 years of his career conducting research oriented toward discovery. After being confronted with the question concerning how that research was contributing to the betterment of the world—especially the betterment of communities where consistent access to sufficient energy was a challenge—Towell and his colleagues invested in a dream now known as NEXT Lab. Whether the growing number of students serving at NEXT Lab invest professionally in nuclear energy, part of what Towell enjoys most is the way those students—students from 10 different academic backgrounds—find ways to contribute. Towell then closes by championing the ways scientists and the Church can partner in addressing some of the world’s greatest needs.
Todd Ream: Welcome to Saturdays at Seven, Christian Scholar’s Review’s conversation series with thought leaders about the academic vocation and the relationship that vocation shares with the Church. My name is Todd Ream. I have the privilege of serving as the publisher for Christian Scholar’s Review and as the host for Saturdays at Seven. I also have the privilege of serving on the faculty and the administration at Indiana Wesleyan University.
—
Our guest is Rusty Towell, Professor of Physics and Director of NEXT Lab at Abilene Christian University. Thank you for joining us.
Rusty Towell: Thank you. It’s great to be with you.
Todd Ream: In his 2024 book, The Power of Nuclear: The Rise, Fall, and Return of our Mightiest Energy Source, Marco Vischer argues that after decades of stagnation, a wave of innovation is sweeping through the nuclear industry.
What’s your assessment of Vischer’s claim? And if you agree, what challenges or conditions do you believe led to sort of previous generations of, or decades of stagnation?
Rusty Towell: That’s a great question. You know, why do we have this amazing energy source that is, you know, so high energy density and clean and abundant, and why did it come out with such promise, and then you basically get sit on the shelf and frozen in one stagnant form for decades and decades and decades? And even people decide, it’s the wrong thing before all of a sudden we said, oh no, it is the right thing. And it’s a great question and I think that it’s worth reflecting on.
And in fact, it’s the type of question that people aren’t paying attention if they don’t ask it. When you’re telling this story about the blessings of nuclear power and someone doesn’t bring that up, then, then they’re just not paying attention. So it probably comes down to who the customer is who needs it, and you know, you, you go back in time and, and other energy sources provide all the energy we needed. We had plenty of fossil fuels, coal and petroleum, natural gas, et cetera.
Met our needs, but it couldn’t meet the need of a very specific case where we need a lot of energy in an oxygen-free environment, and that’s military for submarines. And so they were looking for it, and so they found it. They, you know, they came across it and developed it. And then civilian applications say, let’s take that solution and apply it around our populations. And so makes bomb grade material that’s great for the military. There, you know, it has certain inherent dangers and certain inherent wastes and, and that’s acceptable if you have a well-trained and regulated workforce for a specific critical mission.
If your customer is, I’d like my air conditioner work, I’d like my lights on, I’d like my hospital to work, I’d like, you know, I’d like the electricity in our daily lives to be reliable, then there’s better solutions. And that’s the whole advanced nuclear.
Todd Ream: Do you think the search then, for those solutions is perhaps what prompted this current wave of innovation that Vischer is referencing?
Rusty Towell: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. The, you know, the need for reliable, clean, safe, affordable energy is what drove people back to this solution. But not just to any of them. Let’s, let’s just not build more of 80-year-old technology, but let’s actually innovate it and make it safer and cleaner. And that’s where we find ourselves today is, yes, nuclear is amazing, but we can do better than our great grandparents did.
Todd Ream: Thank you. One wave of innovation Vischer notes in his book relates to the use of thorium, which is known as an energy source of possible use here. Would you begin by sharing with our audience a few details of what defines thorium and in particular, how it’s different, say from uranium?
Rusty Towell: In, in a, in a quick nutshell how do we get energy out of the nuclear fission process? A neutron is absorbed by a very large, almost unstable nucleus, and that one of neutron that’s absorbed, makes it unstable and wants to fall apart, break into two fission. And in that release we get a little bit of mass converted to energy. So Einstein’s E=MC2, a little bit of mass becomes a crazy large amount of energy. And so you literally have a million times more energy released than when you’re, when you’re doing things like burning coal or natural gas. And so that factor of a million, it gives us that energy density from it.
And if you look at all the different isotopes in the world that are out there that are close to being able to do that, there’s really only three that are there that will undergo that fission process. But there’s others that are fertile and they can absorb a neutron and then become something that’s unstable. And if they absorb another one, then they’ll fission. And that’s thorium.
And, and so the beautiful thing about thorium is that it’s much more abundant than uranium. There’s like 400 times more of it on the surface of the earth when you look at the isotopes we care about. And so it’s as common as tin, right? So this is not some sort of rare or mysterious element. It’s very common. It is spread across the earth, right?
So it’s not pockets of halves and pockets of have nots. There’s literally all across the earth people have thorium. It’s very common, like tin. It can just be found in dirt all around the world. And its energy density being a million times higher than coal or natural gas or oil means that everyone has an energy supply that they can tap into by developing thorium as a fuel source.
Todd Ream: Vischer then goes on to note that thorium is what is used, for example in say, a molten salt reactor. Can you begin to help us understand the significance of molten salt reactors and how they differ, say from nuclear reactors found in places like Three Mile Island in Pennsylvania?
Rusty Towell: So first of all, the key different, what makes a molten salt reactor a molten salt reactor is we just change the fluid, the moves, the thermal energy, the heat from where it’s produced in the core to where we want to generate steam to turn a turbine generator with. What we move heat from point A to point B with our heat transfer fluid, instead of using water, we’re using a fluid that doesn’t want to flash to steam when it gets to a low boiling point and creates high pressure.
So instead of water, let’s use a different fluid. And then you start, you know, looking around at what are the fluid options out there. And what you find is there’s this amazing fluid that’s very, very, very stable, that can operate to crazy high temperatures and never wants to go to high pressure. And that’s salt in a liquid form. And so when salt is in a liquid form, we call them molten salt.
So the same way ice melts into water, and then it, you know, we heat it enough, it comes to steam, your, your table salt, your sodium chloride, and we always think of it as a solid, it’s always a solid, but if you get up to high enough temperature, it melts as a liquid and it stays as liquid until it gets to crazy, amazingly high temperatures that we never get to to actually become a gas or vapor. So we’re not using sodium chloride, but we’re using salts to move our heat from point A to point B, and so we’re able to actually operate at extremely high temperatures, which makes the whole process more efficient, but simultaneously low pressure, which makes it safe.
If there is a leak, it’s like candle wax dripping off the top of a candle. When it leaks that way from the heat source, it starts to drip and then it freezes. And it’s frozen. And so there’s no flash to steam go up in the atmosphere, drift around the globe, type of problems with pressurized water reactors.
Todd Ream: Which leads me then now to ask, would you describe the laboratory that you and your colleagues are leading at Abilene Christian University?
Rusty Towell: Yeah, so NEXT Lab is exactly that. We’re, we’re nuclear energy experimental testing. So we’re wanting to raise the technical readiness level of, of the technology of molten salt so we can bless the world. And so we talk about our mission.
Our mission is to provide global solutions to the world’s needs for energy, water, and medicalized hopes by advancing in technology of molten salt reactors, while educating future leaders in nuclear science and medical isotopes. That’s our mission.
Todd Ream: Thank you. What led you and your colleagues to invest in this form of nuclear innovation? And what are your hopes for the outcomes of your efforts?
Rusty Towell: Well, I mean, we want to bless the world. I mean, if you think about it, and, you know, we talk about energy needs and when you and I talk about, you talk about keeping the lights on or keeping the air conditioning running or maybe powering new AI centers, those sorts of things.
But when I, when I really think about the needs of the world and, and I think about the thing that 40% of the world’s population doesn’t have access to electricity on a reliable, dependable basis to live on. And so they’re no longer able, they’re not worried about does the air conditioner work? They’re wondering, how do I cook my dinner?
And for, for that, 40% of the population that doesn’t have electricity to do that, that means they’re going out and they’re cutting wood, or they’re picking up cow pies or some sort of animal manure or other biological waste, and they’re bringing in their home and they’re burning it. They’re of course breathing those fumes. And so we have millions of deaths a year from the just breathing the burning waste that they’re trying to cook their food on or provide a little heat for their home.
And so if we can provide energy, you know, in the form of electricity that’s clean and safe, but we can also make it affordable enough to bless those people that literally, you know, are living on pennies a day types of incomes, then we, we’ve blessed the world, right? I mean, they’re, their, their, horizons rise. They turn on lights at night. They learn to read. They don’t have to carry water every day, right? A statistic, 400 million hours today on this planet of women and girl time carrying water.
Todd Ream: Wow.
Rusty Towell: I mean, it’s just mind blogging and, and then what happens tomorrow? That same 400 million hours of women and girls just carrying water. That’s literally all they’re doing. It’s just bucket after bucket, you know? And, and for some of them it’s 15 minutes a day. Some of them it’s an hour and a half depending on how far it is and how much water they need to carry. But it’s, it’s all this effort doing that.
And if we can provide pure water and just a little bit of electricity and give them a light to read, by all of a sudden they’re able to read, mother’s able to teach their daughters to read their, you know, they can go to school. Their whole life trajectory changes by giving them energy. And that’s the empowering thing of energy.
And so, yes, our goal, our, our excitement in this project is, can we bless the world with this technology? And we think the answer is, yes we can.
Todd Ream: Thank you. I want to back up then now and ask you about how you got into this work in particular. You earned an undergraduate degree in physics from Abilene Christian then a PhD in physics from the University of Texas at Austin. At what point did you discern physics would play a critical role in terms of how you understood your calling? Where did it begin?
Rusty Towell: Well when I was in high school, I went to Texas Energy Science Symposium, and, and you can imagine in the eighties there was a, a lot of a lot of oil and gas and, you know, and, and that was a, a major energy source. And and it’s blessed a lot of lives, so I’m thankful for it.
But we also, I learned at that conference, I learned about the nuclear forces of fission and fusion and the possibilities there. And, you know, so I remember a conversation with my high school science teacher. Hey, if I want to work on, you know, fission, fusion, nuclear stuff, is that, is that chemistry? Is that physics? What do I need to major in when I go to school? He said, it’s physics. Okay. I’m a physics major.
I mean, I always liked the sciences and problem solving and that kind of stuff, but that sort of gave me a trajectory, a starting point. And, you know, and for a lot of years I did basic research and so you know, my PhD dissertation was on the antiquark content, the Nucleon, you know, something I’m sure you’re very excited about and would love to have a podcast on. No one would ever ask for that because it’s one of those things that you say, well, why does it matter to me what the antiquark content of the nuclei is, right? I mean, how’s that changed my life? And I’m like, you know, the answer is, well, I don’t know, but someday we’ll figure out how to do it every time we learn about the world.
And so it’s, you know, and so it was sort of a discovery for the discovery sake, and, and I enjoyed it, but when this new sort of direction came around and I was pointed towards it and literally, you know, I was asked over and over again by someone, what do you think about molten salt reactors? I’m like, hey, nuclear power is the best energy form. We just need more of it. And I was asked repetitively about this and finally I said, well, okay, let me learn more about this thing I’m dismissing.
And when I learned more about it, I had the same question you started with is, wait, this provides clean energy that’s safer and cleaner than nuclear power? And we’ve put it on the shelf? Why is that? I must be missing something. It’s too good to be true. And that’s the question. It’s too good to be true.
But when I looked into it and studied it and learned more about it, I realized, no, it’s not too good to be true. It’s hard, but it was just put on the shelf a long time ago and for a variety of reasons, you know, and you mentioned Three Mile Island. No one wants anything to do with nuclear. Well, just because you have an oops, doesn’t mean you quit. Why did it happen and can we make it better? And the answer is, yes, we can. So let’s do that and let’s move forward.
Todd Ream: Any mentors in particular, this high school teacher that you had, that you turned to, but any mentors in particular that helped along the way with this discernment process of yours?
Rusty Towell: I love the quote that, you know, it talks about, you know, how science is process is sort of standing on the shoulder of giants, right? And without a doubt, you know, I am where I’m at because of the shoulders I’m standing on. And so the list is, I would say too long to go through because everyone’s had a part to, to get me here and prepare me and not just me. This is a team effort.
And so when I think about the, the team that’s trying to do this, right, obviously there’s a whole group here at ACU and it’s not just the, the technical group, but you know, we have a president and we have a board of trustees that believes in this and wants to say, hey, yes, that’s our calling as a university is to, you know, train people, educate students for Christian service and leadership throughout the world. What does that mean if you’re an engineer or you’re a physicist or a chemist? How do you do that?
Well, I think this is the answer to part of that, but we also have a corporate sponsor. You know, Natura Resources says it’s great to learn this in a lab, but if all those people are talking about that, live without electricity, if you’re actually gonna bless their lives with technology, we need someone to deploy it. And so Natura Resources that came along beside us and says, we’re ready to be that, you know, that vendor partner that takes the technology and goes and deploy it.
And, and the list goes on and on and on. We have a group of founders that helped start this project. They’re the first people that took out their checkbook and wrote a check. More recently just to say, Texas just committed $112 million to support this project. And so, you know, it’s hard to limit the credit because so many people are deserving of support. We would not be here without the efforts of a huge group of people.
Todd Ream: Thank you. When you think about your vocation then as a physicist, is there a question or perhaps an interrelated set of questions that intrigue you the most? If you were to boil it down, this is what gets me up in the morning, and perhaps you’ve already sort of stated it in certain ways in terms of our conversation here, but what, what is that question? What do you think it says about you as a physicist?
Rusty Towell: I love this world that God’s created for us. I love learning about it. And for, for decades I just was in the discovery process and, you know, and sort of a, sort of like, where can I see God’s fingerprints in the universe? And that’s wonderful and that’s has a certain satisfaction. But you know, when I, reflect on Jesus’ words, talking about, you know, I was hungry and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me something to drink, I was in need. Then it thinks about what am I actually doing to bless people.
And this project came along with the opportunity really of blessing people. And so I love the way this project combines with and, and, and is in alignment with my Christian mission and the desire to make the world a better place. And so I’m thankful for that, that overlap of what’s fun and exciting to do, but also what has real meaning and can bless people’s lives.
Todd Ream: Thank you. You mentioned basic science and that you cut your teeth as most do on these types of efforts and prior to the development of NEXT Lab, what scientific practices allowed you to pursue your vocation as a physicist?
Rusty Towell: So I was a nuclear physicist and I went to national labs. And you know, for me, what sort of lit my fire and as I reflect back even to my undergraduate years, what changed me and shaped me was not learning Newton’s laws, right? I mean, they’re great and they’re powerful statements of the way the world works, but you can learn those anywhere.
But I actually graduated from Abilene Christian University, and so I came through here as an undergrad. And what shaped me was the ability to have sort of, not just a laboratory experience, but a real world opportunity. You know? So I got to go to a lab and do an experiment for the first time. And I got to use world-class facilities. And so at, at the time the world class facilities were at National Labs, and that’s where we went. So I, as an undergrad, got to go to Los Alamos National Lab and use one of the, you know, highest intensity accelerators in the world to do research.
And I got to do that with a Christian mentor who you know, lived into me, taught me what it was like to, to be a physicist and understand the way the world worked, showed me this amazing tools to, to discovery, and then, you know, I’m out of town, a summer internship, and I show up at a local church and, and there my professor is worshiping on Sunday morning with me.
You know, so this synergy of those three things shaped me. And when I had the opportunity to come back to ACU, that was what excited me about the opportunity to come back and provide real-world opportunities using world-class facilities and be able to walk side by side with students as they learn and share them what it meant to be both a, a physicist and, and a Christian.
The exciting thing now we’re doing with NEXT Lab is we’re bringing some of those world-class facilities on campus, so more students will have that opportunity.
Todd Ream: In terms of the development of NEXT Lab and getting into sort of the nuts and bolts of putting it forward, what ways was the process easier than you initially thought? And what ways was it maybe harder than you initially thought?
Rusty Towell: Another great question. I would say the easier than I thought is nothing. It was so hard. And a lot of people describe, we were just naive enough to think we could actually pull this off and so we started something impossible. And I’d say the reason we got here is that at just the right time, the right doors have been open for us. And so the right people have stepped through the right opportunities, the right things have happened. And that’s a thing where I can step back and try to take credit as being an amazing leader. But of course this is not the case. The case is that, you know, God has opened the right door and put the right people here at the right moment.
And you think about even if you just look at public opinion polls of nuclear, when we started this process and we’re, you know, go back six or eight years ago or ten years ago, and we started thinking the earliest stages about this, what was public opinion? Not so good. But if you look at where it is now, everyone’s a fan. And because of what it provides.
And, and, and that has nothing to do with what I’m doing. I mean, I hope I’m contributing. I try to educate people where I can, about how it’s safe and it’s gonna bless the world. But the truth of the matter is there’s been so many things that happen, that God takes the credit for. And so much, much harder.
One of the fun things about it that I didn’t see coming is this, just the interdisciplinary nature of it. When you take on some big, bold project like this, it’s no longer a, you know, it’s no longer a physics problem. Um, in fact, you know, the physics had proven in the 1960s when they built one of these reactors, right? So you, you can say that the technical is not the really, the hard part.
You know, why have we not built any, or why has there not been much advancing in sort of nuclear technology over the last 50-60 years, it has more to do with political and regulations. And so all of a sudden you learned a lot more about politics than I ever thought I would. Big projects like this take a lot of money, and so that means there’s a lot of financing and so I’ve learned more about business than I thought it would.
And if it’s got, you know, politics and regulations and money then, and it is political and you do get the chance to meet with politicians and make trips to Austin, Texas and to Washington, D.C. and and, and, and then it is regulated. So that means contracts and that means attorneys. And so I, you know, so many people that, you know, a nuclear physicist has no business interacting with, right? I mean, a podcast, why is a nuclear physicist on a podcast because of something interesting that’s there, this opportunity to share. That’s, you know, we’re going to bless the world.
So lots of open doors and lots of opportunities to tackle this project because of the interdisciplinary nature of it, richness of the project.
Todd Ream: You mentioned the interdisciplinary dimension of all of this. When I ask you then a question about the students and the students and the ways they are at Abilene Christian and the ways they’re involved in this effort, the NEXT Lab website notes that students in 10 different majors can play roles in conducting research with NEXT Lab.
At what point did you envision NEXT Lab would demand insights from a variety of disciplines and that students could play a critical role in that process?
Rusty Towell: I love involving the students. They bring in energy and excitement that you can have, but you can’t maintain very well without the students. I’ll just, you know, secret to you, you should enjoy it at a university. One of the, one of the blessings of being around young people again, I claimed we were young and inexperienced when we said we do this project, because we didn’t know enough that we couldn’t do it, so we started doing it. Um, so they bring that energy and real interdisciplinary of nature of this.
And you know, some people refer to this as a chemistry actor, and you know, as a physicist, I always like to, I would, I have a chemist colleague that I love, kidding him how, you know, insignificant chemistry is, and physics is such a, you know, a higher and deeper and richer, you know, field. And we kid back and forth constantly on this, but the truth of the matter is this is a chemist reactor, right? The excitement, what’s in this particular how you one line refueling and how you remove waste from the, from the salt and all that. That’s all a big chemistry project. The corrosion that’s going on, that, that’s all sort of the chemistry question. The physics was settled in the sixties, but we’re still working on trying to understand and master the chemistry and so there’s lots of research there.
And so the students come from all over the chemist, the engineers of all different flavors. The physicist, the computer scientist, and you know, and even when you start getting a project this big, you say, oh hey, big, big dollars. Can we get a finance student to help? Well help me with a budget. Or can I get a graphic design student to help me with a logo or a website layout or a, you know, and so you end up, yes, lots of students have their fingerprints on this project. We’re pushing 300 students have worked on this project over the last decade.
Todd Ream: For those students then who’ve worked on this project, and don’t, say, go on to pursue careers within nuclear physics, what are the formative expectations that you hope carry them forward into the future? What do you hope they get that shapes them as people, even if they don’t go in and do this professionally?
Rusty Towell: And you know, I mean, I would love it. I’m thankful for the students that do join this profession, but what I really want to do is I want to help students find where, where they’re called, right? Where are you called to and where do you, where can you take your talents and fulfill, you know, God’s mission for you and your life? And that’s got to be a place where you have some talent and you have some passion and drive and, and, you know, and, and it sort of all comes together the same way I was describing the sweet spot for me in NEXT Lab, you find your sweet spot where you can do that.
And so, you know, wherever it is, if you can be a part of a team, if you can communicate, if you can understand how your little bit fits into a bigger process or team those are skills that are great. I mean, and, and those translate wherever you’re going and whatever you’re doing. And so that’s probably a whole lot more important than, you know, I mean, how well can you understand a redox equation for the chemistry here? Or how well can you signal process something coming out of a, a sensor or, or program, you know, lines of code. You know, those are lessons that will shape you for your whole career no matter what sort of changes of career path you have in the future.
Todd Ream: Last winter, Abilene Christian was reclassified as an R-2 or research two institution according to the Carnegie Classifications of Institutions of Higher Learning. Despite this recognition, the prevailing thought is that efforts to build and operate an effort, say such as NEXT lab, are parts of big science, as it’s often called, often pursued at R-1 institutions.
In what ways can an effort such as NEXT Lab, operate well in an R-2 environment such as Abilene Christian, perhaps, maybe even better in an R-2 environment?
Rusty Towell: No, no, it’s a great question. And I’d say we have some amazing partners. We’re working with R-1 partners, so from the beginning we’ve been working with the University of Texas and Austin and Texas A&M University and Georgia Institute Technology. So I love our R-1 partners and collaborators, and so don’t let me say anything bad about R-1. Someday, I hope ACU grows there.
But to answer your question, what do we have and why and people look at it and say, great. Four universities, which these universities doesn’t look like the others, right. And why is ACU hosting this research reactor if we’ve got these other partners here?
I’d say a lot of it goes to the boldness and vision of our president, President Schubert. You know, he is willing to step forward and try. I mean, if, if he tells his story, and I think you interviewed him, he, he loves to tell a story about when this crazy faculty member brought him a crazy idea and he well, it’s okay if he fails, you know, it’s discovery and, you know, and so, you know. But he had the courage to allow us to explore this.
And then we had a board of trustees that was willing to say, yeah you know, and, and, and I’ll say while there’s other universities University of Illinois Penn State, et cetera. Those other universities are thinking about building advanced reactors now. When we announced it and we said we were doing it when we built this building, I’m standing in to house, this first advanced university research reactor, no other school was talking about building a reactor.
They’ve been decommissioning for the last 50 years, all that ever happened is decommission a reactor, decommission, decommission. And we are the first ones saying, hey, let’s, let’s build a new one. So we were heading in the opposite direction. And that sort of ability to see the future, see what the possibilities are, and buck the trends is something I’m not sure a huge university does so well.
And the other thing I’ll say is it’s interdisciplinary. And we’re small enough that, I mean, I actually knew some chemistry faculty, so when I first started thinking about this project, I was able to go over the chemistry department and say, hey, I’ve got this crazy idea about working with molten salt reactors, but some people call it a chemistry reactor, and I wonder if there’s a chemist that wants to work with me on this journey, right? And so a couple of them joined in and that, that’s 10 years ago. And the same faculty have been working with me on this project for the last decade.
And it’s, it’s that interdisciplinary stuff. I mean, again, you go to the other schools and those, you know, nuclear engineering and chemistry are probably in different colleges, different sides of campus, and so big, they don’t even right hand, left hand, don’t even know who each other are. I’m not saying it’s not great things about those schools, but that’s an advantage we can live into here is that we’re small and nimble and we’re able to work across silos.
Todd Ream: Thank you. As we get short on time, I want to transition now to asking you as a physicist, how you understand the academic location and sort of what characteristics or qualities are most definitive when you think about what it is, the work to which you’re called.
Rusty Towell: I always reflect back the first day of class with all my students to sort of, Paul’s sermon when he is talking to people about this world that that’s made that they don’t necessarily understand. And he says, you know, God made this world and everything in it, and sort of in the hopes that would find Him, right. And, and I’m doing a poor paraphrase there.
But as a scientist that worked for years in discovery and now trying to take that discovery and apply it to human needs, I think about how can you, how can you see God in the world created around us? He created an amazing world. I feel like His fingerprints are all over it. The deeper you look and if you look inside of molecules, inside of atoms, inside of the nucleus, inside of protons or neutrons, and see their antiquark structure, I think you can see His fingerprints there, right? I’m sure there’s not a lot of people that see it the way I do.
But the point is, it’s amazing how it’s made, right? The fact that we have this rich, rich world and, and of all the different isotopes out there, there’s, there’s one in nature that actually, if it absorbs the neutron, we’ll release some energy, an amazing amount of energy. We can do it, right?
And why did He put it there, right? I mean, did it happen by chance? No, I think God did it with a purpose. And so can we take advantage of that? I’m, I’m rambling on off topic, but the idea that God’s fingerprints are in the creation around us. And as a scientist, I get a chance to study that. As an engineer, I get to think about how can we take advantage of those features He’s built into the world around us?
Todd Ream: Thank you. In what ways has that understanding sort of evolved or developed over time as you’ve been teaching and as you’ve been engaged as a physicist in this work?
Rusty Towell: Well, well certainly for, first 20 years of my professional, you know, career, I was really focused on just, just the discovery, right. And I would just talk about the joy of seeing God’s fingerprints there.
But as I was challenged about, well, why don’t you make the world a better place, right? Can we, you know, how can you take advantage of the things you’re learning? And how can we address the world’s needs for energy and clean water and medical isotopes? And, and the answer is, well, yes you can. Well, then why aren’t you doing something about it?
And, well, I, you know, I’ve got this grant from the, you know, Department of Energy to do basic discovery.
He’s like, well. What if, if we take the funding problem off, what if we write you a check? All of a sudden I was challenged in a different way. And so then all of a sudden this question, could I think about addressing the real world’s needs of the world? And the answer was yes, I think I could. And, so it’s opened up this amazing opportunity.
Todd Ream: As a physicist then to carry out this sense of calling and vocation, what virtues do you believe are most important to cultivate, to keep on the forefront of your thinking, but also for students that work with you, you know, what are some of the best ways we can serve them by cultivating certain virtues that allow them to flourish in these ways?
Rusty Towell: Nothing’s, nothing’s easy, right? There, everything you do has ups and downs and days of victories and, and, and tough days. And, and I think that having, having a purpose and a mission that that you can keep reflecting back on, it has value. That’s more than just a job, right? I mean, if it’s just a job, I mean, I think we’re all ready to tap out on certain days. But if it’s a job, yes, it pays the bills, but more importantly, it’s something that aligns with who I am and who I want to be and what I want to accomplish, and how I want to leave the world better than I found it.
And there’s lots of ways of blessing the world. I mean, this aligns with my skill sets, but, you know, I’m thankful for first responders and I’m thankful for all the teachers that taught me and teach my children and my grandchildren, and, you know, healthcare professionals. There’s so many ways of blessing the world, sharing information and brighten people’s horizons.
There’s all ways of doing it. Find the way that for you is that intersection of what’s your abilities, what aligns with what’s important to you, and how can you sort of give back. And if you can find something that’s in the middle of that, then I think then you found your happy spot.
Todd Ream: For physicists then, what vices do you believe are most important to sort of keep in front of you or be vigilant about confronting when they may emerge?
Rusty Towell: I’ve always enjoyed the conversation about a scientist versus a man of faith, right? And people love to spread that apart and, and act like you’re either, you got to pick, right? They try to force it on you. It’s a choice. It’s either you believe what your eyes see, or you believe what your heart, you know, holds true or whatever.
And I think I reject that as hard as I can. I believe you can look at the world and, and you can see God’s fingerprints on it. And the more you discover, the more you understand how beautifully He made this world. And at the same time, all the signs of the world to me can’t answer the question of why. You know, why did God make this world?
And so, you know, you go back to Acts and God made this world in, in the hopes that we’ll see Him, right? And so again, it points, you know, so my faith gives me the answer to why. And my sciences, you know, explains what I see. And so I feel like they reinforce each other and they’re better together.
Todd Ream: As we close our conversation then, I want to ask along these lines here then, in what ways do you believe that physicists can be of greater service to the Church, but yet also the Church can maybe be of greater service to physicists and advance the calling of science and this understanding of God’s world?
Rusty Towell: I love talking about, you know, make sure you have the right tool for the right job, right? And so when we’re trying to say, how can we meet the energy needs of the world, let’s not try to imagine we can go back and better understand the Old Testament prophets and they’ll answer that question for us.
I believe science and engineering will help us come up with a solution that’s clean, safe, and abundant, and we’ll bless the world. If I say, why should I care about that person across the world that’s living without energy? Science doesn’t give you an answer for that. I mean, they don’t give you a reason for why you should care about someone or have compassion for them but my faith certainly does.
And so let’s bring them together, let’s quit pretending like they’re one or the other. They’re, they’re each richer together. Let’s not look for gotchas or dividing points. Let’s not chase meaningless questions, which I think some people get hung up on. Can we make the world a better place? Why should we do that? And why should we care about people? I think those are things that we can really focus on.
Todd Ream: Thank you very much. Our guest has been Rusty Towell, Professor of Physics and Director of the NEXT Lab at Abilene Christian University. Thank you for taking the time to share your insights and wisdom with us.
Rusty Towell: Thank you very much.
—
Todd Ream: Thank you for joining us for Saturdays at seven Christian Scholars reviews conversation series with thought leaders about the academic vocation and the relationship that vocation shares with the Church. We invite you to join us again next week for Saturdays at Seven.
